Radeon 9800 Pro Roundup

3rd June 2003, 13:47

Well, it's a great review in terms of # of cards tested. However, the editor seems to think that a card OC'd at stock is better than a card that's running according to Ati's specs and design. Not entirely my opinion to say the least. Call me old fashioned but I think cards should run at their rated speed when leaving the factory. OC'rs will run it at whatever they like anyway, and normal users should get the card they pay for. No matter how you put it, OC'ing stuff reduces it's lifespan. And if I was a normal user and bought a 9800pro because it is the best available, I would want it to last, not to have a 0.3% faster 3dmark score. Face it, nobody really cares about FPS anymore, since all of them are way fast enough to run any game out today. If time comes they aren't capable anymore, what's a .3% higher 3dmark score 3 years back going to do for you? Jack ****!

jmke · 3rd June 2003, 13:50

if the manufacter uses higher rated components then ATI, it is possible to let them run @ higher speeds without problem

cfr Gainward Golden series

3rd June 2003, 14:00

That is true. Regretably there is no mention on what type of BGA mem used on all the cards, nor are the screenshots big enough to read the chips yourself. So since they only briefly mention Powercolor uses 2.2ns chips, and all the boards max out at 750~760 my guess is they are all using the same type of memory. Hence my earlier comments.

3rd June 2003, 14:25

post it on the forums @ nordichardware and we'll be glad to answer your questions

RichBa5tard · 3rd June 2003, 15:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarcastro
That is true. Regretably there is no mention on what type of BGA mem used on all the cards, nor are the screenshots big enough to read the chips yourself. So since they only briefly mention Powercolor uses 2.2ns chips, and all the boards max out at 750~760 my guess is they are all using the same type of memory. Hence my earlier comments.

author at xtreme:

Quote:

I might have to rephrase the thing about 2.0ns memory on our card. It seems like PowerColor uses the term “2ns memory” and not exactly 2.0ns memory, our sample were equipped with 2.2ns Hynix chips. It could be the fact that PowerColor actually ships three models of there R9800 Pro cards that messes up the equation.
They are shipping an “vanilla” model with 2.8ns memories and as it seems two high-end versions with 2.2ns or 2.0ns memories. At VR-Zone they received a card with 2.0ns Hynix chips as can be seen here.
Our card used 2.2ns Hynix chips and you can compare the two texts here.

VR-Zone 2.0ns: Hynix HY5DU283222 AF20
NordicHardware 2.2ns: Hynix HY5DU283222 AF22

The strangest thing though is that twiztdskatr says 2.0ns Samsung memory, if that’s true PowerColor also uses Samsung chips which makes things even more complicated.

__________________
Anton K,
Editor-in-chief
NordicHardware.se
NordicHardware.com

3rd June 2003, 15:37

Hi I'm the author of the review. (The other Anton who posted at Xtreme systems is our editor in chief, I'm the one who wrote the article though)

As you can see by the other Antons reply things were a bit complicated.

But 2.2 ns running at 760 Mhz is well within the specs. As for the 400 Mhz core I haven't seen a single board that doesn't clock over 400 Mhz, worst I've seen is 415 MHz.
So basically PowerColor doesn't even have to handpick chips to get ones performing well at 400 MHz.
Heat is not a problem at these speeds either and a 5% overclock isn't really gonna touch lifetime at all.
It might shorten it one or two years, but if the original life span is ten years who really cares. I mean in ten years this board won't even fit into any slot on the mobos.

PowerColor has on numerous occasions assured me that they will bring this limited edition board into retail.
They actually chose not to use 2.0 ns memory on the final boards because it's too limited in quantity to do a retail release based on it.

3rd June 2003, 15:45

Oh yeah, as for 9800 capping out at 760 Mhz memory speeds this is a combination of two factors: PCB tracing: the PCB was simply not designed with very high RAM speeds in mind.
The other factor which is the most important one is that the memory on PowerColors board is "undervoltaged".

Since I never got to keep the board I couldn't volt mod it

I'd love to slap on some nice cooling on both the core and memory and then voltmod it and overclock the crap out of it.

13th June 2003, 16:45

have you guys figured out how to oc the ddr2 yet??? I noticed there are 2 of the mem controller chips that they had on the 9700pro....but they both measure different resistance from eachother? So then I assume that one is for the vddq while the other must be for the vdimm.....the measuring points are different on this board too....I got the vcore done but I cant find anything one the the rest of the mods. Kind of funny how the vcore is stock at 1.7v instead of 1.5v. That really makes it look like an oc'ed 9700!

18th July 2003, 09:02

this is twiztdskatr...

funny thing is i found this page by just ****ing around and googling my alias. yeah i got 2.0 sammy here. its a retail powercolor straight outta www.gameve.com

18th July 2003, 09:05

ordered this **** when it was 405.00 even and shipped, so it was pretty early into the 9800 days. if you wanna talk about my ****, email me, dont just chitchat on some shrimp forum

peace - twizt

3rd June 2003, 13:47	#1
Sarcastro Posts: n/a	Radeon 9800 Pro Roundup Well, it's a great review in terms of # of cards tested. However, the editor seems to think that a card OC'd at stock is better than a card that's running according to Ati's specs and design. Not entirely my opinion to say the least. Call me old fashioned but I think cards should run at their rated speed when leaving the factory. OC'rs will run it at whatever they like anyway, and normal users should get the card they pay for. No matter how you put it, OC'ing stuff reduces it's lifespan. And if I was a normal user and bought a 9800pro because it is the best available, I would want it to last, not to have a 0.3% faster 3dmark score. Face it, nobody really cares about FPS anymore, since all of them are way fast enough to run any game out today. If time comes they aren't capable anymore, what's a .3% higher 3dmark score 3 years back going to do for you? Jack ****!

3rd June 2003, 13:50	#2
jmke Madshrimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: 7090/Belgium Posts: 79,022	if the manufacter uses higher rated components then ATI, it is possible to let them run @ higher speeds without problem cfr Gainward Golden series __________________

13th June 2003, 16:45	#8
Matt McFaul Posts: n/a	9800pro 256 oc'ing have you guys figured out how to oc the ddr2 yet??? I noticed there are 2 of the mem controller chips that they had on the 9700pro....but they both measure different resistance from eachother? So then I assume that one is for the vddq while the other must be for the vdimm.....the measuring points are different on this board too....I got the vcore done but I cant find anything one the the rest of the mods. Kind of funny how the vcore is stock at 1.7v instead of 1.5v. That really makes it look like an oc'ed 9700!

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3rd June 2003, 14:00	#3
Sarcastro Posts: n/a	That is true. Regretably there is no mention on what type of BGA mem used on all the cards, nor are the screenshots big enough to read the chips yourself. So since they only briefly mention Powercolor uses 2.2ns chips, and all the boards max out at 750~760 my guess is they are all using the same type of memory. Hence my earlier comments.

3rd June 2003, 14:25	#4
[NH]Ozy Posts: n/a	post it on the forums @ nordichardware and we'll be glad to answer your questions

3rd June 2003, 15:37	#6
Unregistered Posts: n/a	Hi I'm the author of the review. (The other Anton who posted at Xtreme systems is our editor in chief, I'm the one who wrote the article though) As you can see by the other Antons reply things were a bit complicated. But 2.2 ns running at 760 Mhz is well within the specs. As for the 400 Mhz core I haven't seen a single board that doesn't clock over 400 Mhz, worst I've seen is 415 MHz. So basically PowerColor doesn't even have to handpick chips to get ones performing well at 400 MHz. Heat is not a problem at these speeds either and a 5% overclock isn't really gonna touch lifetime at all. It might shorten it one or two years, but if the original life span is ten years who really cares. I mean in ten years this board won't even fit into any slot on the mobos. PowerColor has on numerous occasions assured me that they will bring this limited edition board into retail. They actually chose not to use 2.0 ns memory on the final boards because it's too limited in quantity to do a retail release based on it.

3rd June 2003, 15:45	#7
Unregistered Posts: n/a	Oh yeah, as for 9800 capping out at 760 Mhz memory speeds this is a combination of two factors: PCB tracing: the PCB was simply not designed with very high RAM speeds in mind. The other factor which is the most important one is that the memory on PowerColors board is "undervoltaged". Since I never got to keep the board I couldn't volt mod it I'd love to slap on some nice cooling on both the core and memory and then voltmod it and overclock the crap out of it.

18th July 2003, 09:02	#9
Unregistered Posts: n/a	this is twiztdskatr... funny thing is i found this page by just ****ing around and googling my alias. yeah i got 2.0 sammy here. its a retail powercolor straight outta www.gameve.com

18th July 2003, 09:05	#10
Unregistered Posts: n/a	ordered this ** when it was 405.00 even and shipped, so it was pretty early into the 9800 days. if you wanna talk about my **, email me, dont just chitchat on some shrimp forum peace - twizt