Ninja/Shogun with peltier

15th August 2005, 18:37

"AMD A64 Heatsink roundup Q2 2005"

Excellent review!!!

That's what brought me here

Anyway, I'm looking at trying the Ninja or Shogun with a peltier. Used a peltier on my present system with an Alpha P3125S CPU cooler. It's been 5 years and it's still doing the job though the delta temp has come up ~10F.

This will go on an ASUS A8N-SLI Premium mobo with the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ CPU. With the Shogun my concern is with the heat pipe used on this board to take heat from the NVIDIA MCP (Media Communications Processor) to a small thin-finned cooler in the area around the CPU socket. I've emailed Scythe about it this morning but no reply as yet.

Anyone try either of these heatsinks with a peltier?

piotke · 15th August 2005, 20:26

The pentium 3 chip generates not that much heat, and can be cooled relatively easely with a TEC element.

You always need a TEC with minimal double the power rating. So let's say P!!! = ~30 watt, your TEC is at least 60 watt.

The A64, depending on the version, is about 70 watt, your TEC needs to be minimal 140 watt, recomended 160 watt, for a non overclocked system....

Cooling down 160 watt with aircooling is not easy !

ow, I think it'l fit. I have an ASUS A8N SLI, with a normal cooling. and only the fan hoover this place a bit. (But you can install the fan on the other side)

Tested here

16th August 2005, 08:01

Thanks for that Pic!!!

I smell water.
And another DC supply.
Built a 12 volt 20 amp supply for the present system...a bit overkill but that's the parts I had on hand at the time.

Man, I didn't want to go water but facts are facts. Thanks

Got some thinking to do.

piotke · 16th August 2005, 10:12

Watercooling is the solution.

I would recommend, if you really intend to use a TEC setup, a 200+ watt TEC. You probably will overclock your cpu, and then the output wil becom close to 100 watts..

And use a stand-alone PSU for your TEC

17th August 2005, 08:39

OK. Thought about it and met with the higher ups. My wife

Water it is.

To justify the expense I'll need to build an external unit to service two computers. Also in the "deal" it will have to provide water to an indoor fountain, wife's always wanted one. So she'll either design one or buy one, dunno. That's up to her. (happy wife = justification

) So I could plumb the output of the pump to a radiator then to the fountain and pull water from that resevoir, through the water blocks to the input of the pump. Pulling water through the blocks should help eliminate the possibilities of leaks within the computers. A valve could also bypass the fountain if desired.

The pump I have in mind is Poseidon PS4 External Pump
I've heard it's pretty quiet for it's size.

I'll use a variac to vary the speed of the pump if needed. I'm also into telsa coils and have all sorts of uncommon electrical hardware lying around. I'll also need a power supply. I have several beefy low voltage transformers I got from Ebay. This guy's been selling these for a couple years now. Look up "13 Volt 70 Amp Transformer" on Ebay to view the transformer, $37 shipped. High current diodes, large filter capacitors etc. are also in the garage... somewhere.

Also knew about those TEC's I read about somewhere else on this forum. Awesome deal and they work.

So the intent of this project has expanded to eliminating as much, if not all, fan noise in our computer room concern both computers. This project should prove to be fun but it'll take some time. I'm also currently building another comp to replace this brontosaurus I'm using right now. So these two projects will go hand-in-hand sorta speak.

geoffrey · 17th August 2005, 10:47

Quote:

Originally posted by piotke
[b]The pentium 3 chip generates not that much heat, and can be cooled relatively easely with a TEC element.

You always need a TEC with minimal double the power rating. So let's say P!!! = ~30 watt, your TEC is at least 60 watt.

The A64, depending on the version, is about 70 watt, your TEC needs to be minimal 140 watt, recomended 160 watt, for a non overclocked system....

Cooling down 160 watt with aircooling is not easy !

Well, not completly true.

TEC's are rated for a sertain amount of watts they can pump from one side to the other. So basicly a 220W TEC is able to cool 220W. When cooling 220W of heat the TEC is not able te make any temp difference between two sides, and thats why u have to take a TEC that can cool the double of what our final CPU-heatoutput will be. Otherwise u would be using a lot of electricity for 0° temp difference

So cpu = 100W -> TEC = 200W
As I said: 200W is cooling power, not the amount of heat dissipated. Let's say it uses 24A @ 15V, then the final power ussage will be 360W, not 200W. And then there's still the surplus of the 100W of your CPU, so after all the amount of heat to cool by heatsink will be more then 400W in stead off 200W.

Still, TEC is possible. Let's say u use 70W TEC on 70W cpu. When cpu is @ full load u wont get any difference, and maybe temps going to be even higher then before. But when idle or just basicly stuff like surfing the cpu wont be so hot, and then it's possible to get some lower cpu temps then without TEC.

I suggest u just go on wather, it's the best thing u can do, and the only thing that will make u sattisfied about TEC.

piotke · 17th August 2005, 13:43

slightly different explanation, same result

17th August 2005, 19:21

Yes. To reach the rated temp delta one needs to power the TEC by it's rated wattage even without the heat load of a CPU.
I have a couple 360 watt pelts so I'll be using one of those.

With adequate water cooling one could stack pelts making sure the top one is the same or higher wattage rating than the one underneath.
I'm not sure if the lower temps are worth it though. And I'd be concerned about the initial thermal shock to an expensive CPU. May be no problem but I'm a bit hesitant. Then there's condensation to consider with lower temps. Eliminating condensation using one pelt isn't all that hard but two pelts may mean a greater area to protect with better thermal insulating materials.

23rd August 2005, 20:45

May not go with a pelt.
Anyway, got the Danger Den NV-68 for the BFG 6800GT vid card and two D-Tek White Water water blocks for the CPUs, one for the wife and one for me. Will order the Poseidon PS4 water pump in a couple weeks. Also in my sights are two 1977 Bonneville heater cores. Also got hold of a Blue White water flowmeter to check water flow at key points.

15th August 2005, 18:37	#1
PotLuck Posts: n/a	Ninja/Shogun with peltier "AMD A64 Heatsink roundup Q2 2005" Excellent review!!! That's what brought me here Anyway, I'm looking at trying the Ninja or Shogun with a peltier. Used a peltier on my present system with an Alpha P3125S CPU cooler. It's been 5 years and it's still doing the job though the delta temp has come up ~10F. This will go on an ASUS A8N-SLI Premium mobo with the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ CPU. With the Shogun my concern is with the heat pipe used on this board to take heat from the NVIDIA MCP (Media Communications Processor) to a small thin-finned cooler in the area around the CPU socket. I've emailed Scythe about it this morning but no reply as yet. Anyone try either of these heatsinks with a peltier?

15th August 2005, 20:26	#2
piotke [M] Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5,003	The pentium 3 chip generates not that much heat, and can be cooled relatively easely with a TEC element. You always need a TEC with minimal double the power rating. So let's say P!!! = ~30 watt, your TEC is at least 60 watt. The A64, depending on the version, is about 70 watt, your TEC needs to be minimal 140 watt, recomended 160 watt, for a non overclocked system.... Cooling down 160 watt with aircooling is not easy ! ow, I think it'l fit. I have an ASUS A8N SLI, with a normal cooling. and only the fan hoover this place a bit. (But you can install the fan on the other side) Tested here __________________ .

16th August 2005, 10:12	#4
piotke [M] Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5,003	Watercooling is the solution. I would recommend, if you really intend to use a TEC setup, a 200+ watt TEC. You probably will overclock your cpu, and then the output wil becom close to 100 watts.. And use a stand-alone PSU for your TEC __________________ .

17th August 2005, 13:43	#7
piotke [M] Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5,003	slightly different explanation, same result __________________ .

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16th August 2005, 08:01	#3
PotLuck Posts: n/a	Thanks for that Pic!!! I smell water. And another DC supply. Built a 12 volt 20 amp supply for the present system...a bit overkill but that's the parts I had on hand at the time. Man, I didn't want to go water but facts are facts. Thanks Got some thinking to do.

17th August 2005, 08:39	#5
PotLuck Posts: n/a	OK. Thought about it and met with the higher ups. My wife Water it is. To justify the expense I'll need to build an external unit to service two computers. Also in the "deal" it will have to provide water to an indoor fountain, wife's always wanted one. So she'll either design one or buy one, dunno. That's up to her. (happy wife = justification ) So I could plumb the output of the pump to a radiator then to the fountain and pull water from that resevoir, through the water blocks to the input of the pump. Pulling water through the blocks should help eliminate the possibilities of leaks within the computers. A valve could also bypass the fountain if desired. The pump I have in mind is Poseidon PS4 External Pump I've heard it's pretty quiet for it's size. I'll use a variac to vary the speed of the pump if needed. I'm also into telsa coils and have all sorts of uncommon electrical hardware lying around. I'll also need a power supply. I have several beefy low voltage transformers I got from Ebay. This guy's been selling these for a couple years now. Look up "13 Volt 70 Amp Transformer" on Ebay to view the transformer, $37 shipped. High current diodes, large filter capacitors etc. are also in the garage... somewhere. Also knew about those TEC's I read about somewhere else on this forum. Awesome deal and they work. So the intent of this project has expanded to eliminating as much, if not all, fan noise in our computer room concern both computers. This project should prove to be fun but it'll take some time. I'm also currently building another comp to replace this brontosaurus I'm using right now. So these two projects will go hand-in-hand sorta speak.

17th August 2005, 19:21	#8
PotLuck Posts: n/a	Yes. To reach the rated temp delta one needs to power the TEC by it's rated wattage even without the heat load of a CPU. I have a couple 360 watt pelts so I'll be using one of those. With adequate water cooling one could stack pelts making sure the top one is the same or higher wattage rating than the one underneath. I'm not sure if the lower temps are worth it though. And I'd be concerned about the initial thermal shock to an expensive CPU. May be no problem but I'm a bit hesitant. Then there's condensation to consider with lower temps. Eliminating condensation using one pelt isn't all that hard but two pelts may mean a greater area to protect with better thermal insulating materials.

23rd August 2005, 20:45	#9
PotLuck Posts: n/a	May not go with a pelt. Anyway, got the Danger Den NV-68 for the BFG 6800GT vid card and two D-Tek White Water water blocks for the CPUs, one for the wife and one for me. Will order the Poseidon PS4 water pump in a couple weeks. Also in my sights are two 1977 Bonneville heater cores. Also got hold of a Blue White water flowmeter to check water flow at key points.